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Post by japaneseteeth on Oct 19, 2014 17:21:27 GMT
I don't think I've actually run into anybody who doesn't think it was improvement.
Also, that avatar. I'm just finishing up on Pinocchio. The Coachman is really one of the most underrated Disney villains.
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Post by CorvusAtrox on Oct 19, 2014 17:32:46 GMT
He is indeed something. Glad you like. I decided to change to it after you mentioned how large your current one was. Though for more details, I'd say my favorite part of it was probably Sunset. The Dazzles were nice too (And it amused me that they posed like they did after Adagio's villainous speech in the first few minutes.
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Post by Applelight Limited on Oct 19, 2014 19:17:12 GMT
Christ, the coachman...there's a trouser browner from my childhood come back big time.
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Post by darkabomination on Oct 20, 2014 2:27:21 GMT
I really think Sunset had a better redemption story than Discord. It helps that there's a lot of deconstruction of being easily forgiven, and her actions in this movie, dare I say clarify and put her previous behavior in a different light. Not saying any more for Apple's sake.
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Post by japaneseteeth on Oct 20, 2014 2:56:10 GMT
At the very least, I think it helps that they gave her time to mull things through and develop rather than having her do an instant 180.
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Post by Mio on Oct 20, 2014 4:12:38 GMT
At the very least, I think it helps that they gave her time to mull things through and develop rather than having her do an instant 180. Umm. . .she already had done more or less a 180 by the end of the first movie. I don't know what she was mulling things over for.
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Post by Sydxelia on Oct 20, 2014 4:23:28 GMT
I don't consider Discord's "I'll be nice to Fluttershy but be a giant arse to everypony else and try to get away with as much as I can without being turned back to stone" attitude to be anything close to an "instant 180". If anything, he was maintaining a "D minus" grade in Friendship, instead of a flunking outright.
I thought the writers did a good job of showing that Discord didn't truly understand friendship until he almost lost everything near the end of Twilight's Kingdom.
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Post by Kyler Thatch on Oct 20, 2014 10:57:22 GMT
Sunset did pretty much do an instant 180 at the end of the first movie, but in RR, we see her take the time to go through her past actions and realize exactly why the things she was doing were bad. The way she recoils at the thought of what she did tells us that she's not likely to fall back to the dark side on a whim, that she actually is one of the good guys now.
At least, that's what I think JT means by Sunset mulling things over.
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Post by Mio on Oct 20, 2014 12:42:39 GMT
Sunset did pretty much do an instant 180 at the end of the first movie, but in RR, we see her take the time to go through her past actions and realize exactly why the things she was doing were bad. The way she recoils at the thought of what she did tells us that she's not likely to fall back to the dark side on a whim, that she actually is one of the good guys now. At least, that's what I think JT means by Sunset mulling things over. Ok, but why does it make sense that she would do that? What don't really know much about Sunset before she went through the portal, unless you take the comic as canon in which she was more or less the same. So why would she take such different view of her actions unless the Element of Magic stripped her of her original personality and gave her a new one? If that is the ultimate explanation for her change. . .then frankly that's just terrible.
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Post by japaneseteeth on Oct 20, 2014 12:54:01 GMT
@kyler: Yeah, that's what I mean. I agree that her HeelFaceTurn at the end of the first movie was way too sudden, but the second movie dives into her reaction to it more. Mio: I think the different view is largely due to the face that she got knocked off of her pedestal. What she has in common between the comic and the first movie is that she's always on top of the heap. She's Celestia's personal student, and then she goes to basically ruling the school. In both cases, her position offers her a great deal of validation in thinking that she's awesome and deserves to be on top. Getting owned as a demon showed broke that conceit and forced her to realize that real respect has to be earned, so the second movie sees her trying to rebuild her reputation legitimately rather than manipulating her way to the top. There's no reason to think that the magic changed her personality; it just acted as a really strong wake-up slap to get her to realize that in the end her current method just made everyone hate her.
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Post by darkabomination on Oct 20, 2014 13:09:25 GMT
Agreed. I see it as a big break the haughty moment. If it wasn't being depowered, disgraced in front of everyone she felt superior to, and and perhaps realizing Twilight, and by extension Celestia were right, then the time spent being humiliated, and hated by everyone at CHS aside from the Humane Five would hammer it home. And even then, the Five still have some reservations they're trying not to express, but years of bullying is going to leave a bit of a grudge, as evidenced by seeming to forget Sunset's even there when the Fall Formal's mentioned. In short the whole experience broke her down completely, to the point where she's having obvious self-esteem issues even before the hate plague sets in.
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Post by Mio on Oct 20, 2014 13:42:56 GMT
I guess given what I knew about her it just made more sense to me that after what happened she would act more like Luna (genuinely contrite, but still falling into bad behavioral habits because they don't really know any better), or even Trixie (just plain old vengeful) then what she ended up as.
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Post by japaneseteeth on Oct 20, 2014 13:50:56 GMT
It doesn't help that we don't know how much time passed between the two movies.
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Post by Kyler Thatch on Oct 20, 2014 16:08:53 GMT
It can't have been more than a week or so. We see the villain trio watching the orbital friendship cannon firing from what is presumably the she-demon incident.
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Post by japaneseteeth on Oct 20, 2014 16:10:16 GMT
True. Though in that case it's quite impressive that Sunset managed to rebuild the entryway that quickly.
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